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Author Topic: You want DotU to survive too..?  (Read 4260 times)

roux

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You want DotU to survive too..?
« on: February 25, 2007, 06:20:35 AM »
Hello guildmembers  and ex-guildmembers,

With the recent events regarding the release of TBC,
Getting to level 70,
Getting your flying mount,
Wanting to do new instances,
Wanting to get new gear,
Wanting to level up your proffesions to the max,
Wanting to test, and play the new races.
Just to name some things.

Somewhere along the road, I feel the teamspirit has kinda left us and is currently still ebbing away..
I know I am not the only one who feels this,
Just noone dares to say it, and all hope for the best.

Too many people left already, too many people I notice play with mixed feelings,
Too many people concider leaving,eventhough noone really wants to,

But they will leave eventually.

So yea, eventhough in-game noone takes me serious,
I think we got to do something.
All have high expectations of eachother, all want to reach lvl 70, all want a certain piece of armor.
And people are playing blind, greedy, and selfish.
There's only a hand full of players who actually set their own ideals aside, to help out a fellow guildmember,
And know that they'll be level 70 soon anyway, no need to rush.

Every cry for help is answered by a silence, and disapointment.
Not only from me, but i'm sure you guys noticed it yourself first hand too.

All of you want to go raiding soon, be Raider rank again, But everyone only looks UP i feel, but if you look down below you,
you'll notice many people strugling, being stuck on quests, stuck on attune-quest-lines.

And what happens then, you 'll feel alone, there's "nothing" to do.
You can't be arsed to help out that level 67 guy getting lvl 68, you can't be arsed to help someone get attuned.
But you do expect them to hurry up, just so you once more, can be the first to get the epic armors, weapons, trinkets, spells, and **** all.

Doesn't sound too fair does it?
Then why does it happen?

I'm not naming any names, but some ppl are seriously ****iin up the guild with that kinda behaviour.
Help eachother out.
You need to be a team to move on after lvl 70, why not regain that teamspirit before we start anything big, so we come prepared,
And most important, we come Together.
Some more respect to your fellow players is more than welcome,
don't just run off now. Stand and face the problem. don't be a wussie.
You all took the good times in DotU, now it's time to take the bad times.
But take it together, to ensure we get out of it.
Then when u get your epic armor, and you have the best stuff, you actually got reason to be proud.

Might take some longer than other guilds to get there,
but **** that! This is DotU!
S'posed to be a team.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 06:31:17 AM by roux »

Doll

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  • Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #1 on: February 25, 2007, 10:50:55 AM »
    Cant make a longer reply right now, but I agree to the fullest and was thinking about a post like this two nights ago

    WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!  :) (in the good meaning, help and be helped)

    Good going R-man

    Doll :-X


    Doll 80 Warlock - Itch 74 Priest - Bemi 80 Paladin - Cork 70 Rogue
    Mooq 70 Druid - Groin 70 Hunter - Onic 70 Mage - Past 71 Warrior
    Trickzy 76 Shaman - Skorpan 70 Death Knight

    Hack

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  • Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #2 on: February 25, 2007, 10:58:36 AM »
    Hiya Roux

    First of all, damn nice post and pretty concise too :)

    I agree with everything that you have said in your post, it even covers the what I said in my 'news' post the other day about us working together to make progress for later in the game...

    Quote from: Hack
    While plenty of us are making great progress with the higher end quests and instances there are a good few of us that are either not getting to play that much and are still stuck at 60-64 or levelling some new low level characters up. Its not a requirement to help anyone if you dont feel like it but if you have a evening spare where you may just be grinding why not spend a hour or so helping some of your lower level guild friends through some of the instances. Doing this will obviously help them out in a big way but it will also help the guild out in the long run if we have plenty of classes available to call upon.

    I have perhaps been guilty of not helping out as much as I could have been over the last few days or so though due to my obsession with trying to get the Karazhan key finished off (I was on the last stage for a week and half - two weeks I think). As you probably know I got done with that last night (along with Arch) so I am fully intending to go back now and go through some of the instances that i have missed out on before 70 and like you have said give the lower lvls a help up there.

    I would add more than this but due to the usual wife problem I gotta run :/
    Hack, Ryot, Hackmage, Mooer, Asylum, Hackster, Slinkee, Boneyman..
    Back and still being a sucky Arms warrior!

    Archelon

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    Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #3 on: February 25, 2007, 12:55:11 PM »
    Okay, first of all, i agree that MOST of the time, people just cannot be ****ed to help others, but what other people have got to realise is that, and yes i know this sounds a little selfish on my behalf, but tbh, im not that bothered if people think im selfish, as long as i get this point across. People seems to need help every second of everyday, and the people who are always asked to helped these most unfortunate guildies have there own stuff to do and are not going to just drop EVERYTHING that they are going at that precise moment to help someone with a quest that is in the most part soloable, okay, yea, people like company, but thats what /g is for, there are always people there to keep you company, and i mean ALWAYS.

    Yes i will help people when they need it, but i will not stop everything i am doing at that moment to do this, Yes this sounds selfish, but its my point of view and thats what we are wanting isnt it, opinions, points of view on this subject, and this is mine.

    We all pay for this bloody game, yet we get asked to help others all the bloody time and quite frankly, it is getting annoying for me always getting asked by a guildie, can you help me do this, can you show me how to do that, its annoying me so much, that tbh with ya, i almost left again, but i Love you guys way to much to just abandon you at this time of need, but seriously guys, give it a rest, and only ask for help when it is really needed, is you do this, you will find out that you will get that help alot more.

    Also, when someone says that they cant help you, for whatever reason, please dont think that its because they have anything against you personally, maybe its because at that moment of time, they are not in a good mood and you constantly nagging them will just make it worse for this person, i should know, this has happened to me once, and its not nice.

    Okay, thats my view on this topic, if ya dont like it, remember, its MY opinion, and its not here for everyone to like, its here so that everyone knows how I feel about this topic

    Thanks for your time, and for reading my reply

    Archie....

    Doll

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  • Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #4 on: February 25, 2007, 01:10:48 PM »
    I agree with Archelon and I too have my selfish days when I cant be bothered to help anyone. This may be for whatever reason but ofc it can be seen as an selfish act and most likely it will be considered a cruel thing. At least I can find myself with a bit guilty feelings when someone asks for help and noone is there to give it.
      We all play selfishly most of the time, the game is built that way. Sometimes someone needs help and thats when we get together, also this applies to dungeons and raids ofc. There are however people in this game, (not so much in the guild, they left cause we never "helped") that constantly requires help, often without ever giving out any themselves. And as Arch said, many things are soloable, and the best way to find out is to try them. If they dont work try again. If you dont get the hang of it, ask if someone has a trick up their sleeve and if noone has ask if someone needs that quest too or is able to assist.
      Just dont DEMAND or EXPECT to be helped right away or at all. Its not very often that someone is able to drop everything that instant and come helping, I would say that its very rare. But with a little patience I am sure the help will come, maybe from someone that logs in later that also needs it done or from a kind soul that is in helping mode.

    My view has always been (as written above) start helping others, when the day comes and you need help you will someone is eager to repay the favour. I have some people in guild I would drop almost anything for and go help in an instant due them helping me in the past.

    So to sum this up, both Roux and Arch has valid points and I agree with both, I play selfish and help from time to time, so does Arch, he just dont like to admit it  ;)

    What goes around comes around

    Doll :-X
    « Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 01:14:15 PM by Doll »


    Doll 80 Warlock - Itch 74 Priest - Bemi 80 Paladin - Cork 70 Rogue
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    Trickzy 76 Shaman - Skorpan 70 Death Knight

    Hellraiserr

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    Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #5 on: February 25, 2007, 01:55:58 PM »
    I completly agree with Doll's last post, so indirectly with Arch's one also. And I'm a good example of what he says in it. I, a mindless zombie with 21 years old, have managed to lvl Hellraiserr to 70 in few days asking for help maybe 2 or 3 times and doing what Doll says to do: trying myself, trying myself again, asking for tips, reading the internet, asking if anyone else need it and just 2 or 3 times asking for help as a last resort. Asking for help ONLY once, and If I didn't get it then I droped out that quest and continued playing happily.

    So think about this: if a mindless zombie like me have done it, YOU can do it!

    But don't misunderstand me please. As I said I completly agree with Doll's last post. It meens I also think that help each other when possible is a very good way to help guild's progress go faster and make stronger the guild unity feelings.

    IMO: help and don't expect any help back and all will be fine.

    /Hell

    Naddral

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    Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #6 on: February 25, 2007, 03:22:22 PM »
    for some reason I think this post was directed towards me when bubblewrap (aka roux) asked for help running through SM. At that time I was in the Bg's slogging away for weeks/months trying to get my epic PvP set. I have 1 more piece to get now and as I want to get this thing done and dusted so I can go level up I said I didn't have the time.
    This non-helping lower levels though has not just started when tBC came out. I had problems getting help towards levelling to 60, its just that non of you realised this because you were all lvl60 at the time, but now the level cap has been raised you now see that getting help is not that easy. I can't recall a single time when I got help levelling up to 60 and I know for a fact one of my mates left because he didn't get any help. He is now lvl70 and helping his new guild mates through the lower instances, so there gain is our loss.
    So in closing, you shouldn't expect a higher level to take a lower level through an instance just so he/she can get that special piece of kit they wanted but higher levels should help lower levels in the attunement quests because that benefits everybody. And like hell has said above, if you can't get a group of ppl for a particular quest then move onto the solo quests. Apparantly there's plenty of them out there.

    « Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 03:27:14 PM by Naddral »

    Hack

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  • Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #7 on: February 25, 2007, 04:06:06 PM »
    Overall this is a problem that I am assuming is facing many of the larger guilds (hell, I know people that have left other guilds after being there for 'years') since the release of TBC. Many people have forgot just what it is like to go through the process of leveling up again and that people all have their own play style and of course when they can play (in my case when the missis has her back turned).

    All of the above posts have pretty much summed it up perfectly to be honest. We have all helped very low level people in the past I believe, but how often does that happen? not very often, that is for sure! most of the time people have better things to do with their time that they have available in game, be it finishing stupid quests or making progress through various instances.

    I am hoping that as well as getting some of the higher end people through their karazhan key quests I will also be able to spend some time with the 64's and that level to take them on a tour through those places they need to go. (plus I need to go crypts for 2 quests still)
    Hack, Ryot, Hackmage, Mooer, Asylum, Hackster, Slinkee, Boneyman..
    Back and still being a sucky Arms warrior!

    roux

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    Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #8 on: February 25, 2007, 05:41:21 PM »
    The post is nothing directed at anyone personal.

    I see all confessions, and excusses, apologies and all.
    Thats not what i'm after.

    Take an objective look at what is becoming of the guild!

    Neither do I imply  that other ppl should decide how you are to play.
    I play for myself alone often enough too. And when I feel like it, i help out ppl.

    But we all know there's a part of team-play missing.
    All I want it that we all together work towards a succesful raiding guild.

    Just rushing is of no use, because u have to wait for others to reach same point later anyways.
    So why not organise some things so all together stay about same level all make progress, and not just 4 or 5 ppl,
    and the rest just have to do it on their own.
    We should get level 70, and attuned and all that as a team.

    Some people do, some people do not like this idea.
    Just I feel atm, there's too little communication, and everyone is 'just doing something'
    It's not organised at all.

    There's info provided on the website,
    all explained how to get attuned,
    but in-game I hear nothing of it. As if noone really cares about it,
    and is just leveling atm and seeing what guild they'll move to once they reach 70.
    I just don't feel happy about seein that happen.

    Hope this short version is somewhat clearer.

    Diantul

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    Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #9 on: February 25, 2007, 07:06:33 PM »
    ...tbc ruined my life :(

    Naddral

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    Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #10 on: February 25, 2007, 07:30:45 PM »
    sorry roux... crossed wires. I totally agree with you saying that there should be managed way in getting ppl leveling together so they can all start raiding together. I don't know, maybe GEM is the answer. But it is something that has to be looked at in some detail otherwise more and more ppl will start to leave when they reach 70 when they have 'nothing else to do'.

    Cuza

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  • Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #11 on: February 25, 2007, 08:45:52 PM »
    Roux -

    Good post. I have to admit, although I have went out my way alot of the time to help folk out, I have had my 'self time', and lets be honest, everyone does. What does bug me though, is when I see people, and this includes myself, LFG and getting no response back hardly at all.
    Right now i'm doing my damn hardest to reach 70, i've levelled up twice in 2 days from 63 to 65 and now halfway to 66.
    I'm doing this as I have alot of spare time right now between my studies, have no better opportunity to hammer Cza into 70 than now as I want to see the guild move up a notch to prove a massive point to the deserters and doubters.

    On the flipside, it sure hasn't been nice using LookingForGroup most of the time when i've been wanting to do Outland instances. I've had to rely on the same folk again and again for help through these parts and even though they've said its cool, I still feel sh*tty asking them as I know they may have better things to do.

    Archelon -

    Sorry but what you say in your post is very contradictory compared to how it is really. You've recently spent a great deal of your game time following a certain person about and helping them so I really can't see anything to take from what you say seriously in that respect. I helped you a great deal back in the day when you were 40 to 50+ as well as many others. But you can't go out and say "....but seriously guys, give it a rest, and only ask for help when it is really needed..." when you are running around Swamp of Sorrows and the likes.

    I do however, agree with you on the fact of people shouting for help all the time. There have been people who have left because they say the guild is unhelpful, even though people have run them through instances 4 maybe 5 times that week, then they leave DotU in a huffy and yet have had the cheek to STILL ask people in the guild for help even though they have slagged the guild off for being unhelpful. Those are the people who are selfish.
    I too have been down that road where people take your good nature for granted and yes, it isn't pleasant.
    It doesn't kill you to spare an hour or so to lend a hand to those in need. Its not annoying, you get used to it, we were all new once and being part of a guild is about looking after one another. Sure, you can't help people all the time, and yeah, it can wear you down, but as long as your clear enough and let them know you have something you need to do for yourself then there should be no problem.

    Of course, you don't have to help people, but as Doll quite rightly put it, what goes around, comes around.

    Hell -

    Agree in what you say. 2 days ago I managed to grind out almost 300k XP in 4 hours fulled on reading Allakhazam, strong cups of coffee and 20 Malboro Lights. This was during the hours of 2am to 6am WoW time with about 3 people online in DotU. Most of my levelling up has consited of "hammer 3 / 4 instances till first half of XP bar is thru" then "Quest Quest Quest". My sleeping pattern has changed so much, I may as well buy a back cape and start sleeping in a coffin.
    It is possible to make your way up through without help. The only 'help' i've really had recently is people being kind enough to join me in instances.
    Oh yeah, Roux helped me kill 7 moths the other night as well ;)

    Naddral -

    I'm sure i've helped you out before, once. If i'm mistaken, then I apologise. I know very well what it feel like to have no-one about to help you. I didn't join DotU till I was level 40ish, before then I didn't have no help from folk whatsoever. wasn't very nice but I persevered. No one should be forced to help anyone or made to feel bad if they don't. Its our game, we do what we like as long as it doesn't step on someone elses toes.

    Hack -

    Yeah, obviously everyone is heading towards the raiding aspect once more. Its cool that you have got your attunement as well as Arch too, as it will provide some wisdom and guidance towards those who will need attunement. I do feel that once we have a sufficent number of 70s then things will begin to take shape once more.
    Right now its pretty pandemonic, but I know as soon as I hit 70 I will be helping others reach that goal too.

    Diantul -

    Moo

    Hypothesis:

    Well, my personal point of view is that I would like to see as many of us hit 70 as possible so we can start raiding again and see the end content.
    We've had too much mud-slinging and bollocks thrown at us lately, people saying we're 'crippled' and other stuff. That to me is not true.
    First and foremost, enjoy the game, its a form of escapism from the perils and pitfalls that RL throws at you, there is no rush to hit 70 take your time and don't kill yourself over it. We'll all get there if we take time to help out those that need it.

    My suggestion for getting people up to scratch (who want to BE up to scratch and don't mind helping others out) is that we organise more 5 man stuff to do every night for those not 70 yet. An instance run gives you 100k XP at best, do 2 maybe 3 a day thats over 10k XP a week plus your quests on top of that. It isn't rocket science. For those that haven't, get GEM installed until the new calendar thingy comes out (Hack knows more than me about it ;)  ) http://christophe.calmejane.free.fr/wow/gem/ so you can keep up to date on who's wanting to do what.

    Other than that, i'm with what Roux says. We are all part of a team, more communication and team spirit please!
    This topic should be open for people to post their own suggestions on how to move forward also.

    Kind Regards,

    Lord Cza

    Archelon

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    Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #12 on: February 26, 2007, 12:16:08 AM »
    Cza - I help who i like when i like, and tbh with ya if people don't like this about me, just tell me, and ill leave, i dont wanna get into a fight about it, but as i said, it is my OPINION, so therefore, i dont really feel that you need to agree with it, opinions are there for people to show how THEY themselves feel about a certain thing. I know i asked you for help when i didnt need it, but i didnt do it /g every single bloody second, i did it in a whisper, and you didnt have to help me, you could have just said go away and then i would have done it all on my own.

    OPINIONS should never be argued about, end of.

    That is all i gave, was my OPINION  of things, an opinion that i knew everyone would agree with, but i still gave it, as i thought it had to be given.

    This is all i am going to say on the matter for now.

    Thanks

    Cuza

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  • Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #13 on: February 26, 2007, 12:54:05 AM »
    If you read my post properly you'll see I was stating that its contradictory to ask people to give it a rest and ask for help when its needed when you spend alot of time helping one when others could be in desparate need. If thats the way you wanna go about it, fair enough, I respect that.
    I didn't once say for you to leave or get it fights about it, its critisism, deal with it.

    Having opinions is what makes us all different, true, but to go saying one thing and do another makes certain factors that opinion void.

    I also said I helped you because I wanted to put forward an example of helping others, again I didn't say you spammed /g chat crying for help.

    "OPINIONS should never be argued about, end of." is also wrong. Hitler and Saddam Hussain had opinions, but that doesn't mean I would listen to their ideologies.
    This doesn't mean i'm comparing you to them, it means that an opinion can be wrong and can be argued about.

    Cza

    Hruktar

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  • Re: You want DotU to survive too..?
    « Reply #14 on: February 26, 2007, 10:09:04 AM »
    In my opinion, this isn't something related to DotU, it's a general phenomenon across all the guilds. Just to compare: before TBC, what did we do? Being lvl 60 for ages, we raided 3 times a week, the rest of the time we spent standing in Org chatting, or grinding mats for the raid (boooring). So when someone asked for help, it wasn't a big sacrifice to go and help them. Could even be a refreshment from standing around ('cept for that shammy epic hat quest in scholo... not again!! :o).

    But now everyone is levelling, busy doing this or that, loads of elite quests, dungeon quests - for which we all need help. In a perfect world we would level together and do all these things together. But everyone has a real life, and it can't be coordinated how much and at what time of the day people can be online.

    Even after hitting 70, there is a whole lot to do (i'm 70 for a week now and still hasnt done any netherstorm nor shadowmoon quests). Getting attuned to places is also something that cant be done solo.

    All this derives from the fact that everyone has different amounts of time for playing, levelling, questing etc and not from DotU people suddenly turning into little ugly selfish monsters.

    My suggestion is:

    - Use GEM and the forums to organise runs to instances and elite quests you need. You might find that a lot of people need that quest that were not online at the moment when you asked in guild chat.
    - when you get help from someone, offer to help them in return. Everyone has group quests that need to be done, ask them what you can help them with. This way, people helping you won't feel it was a waste of time levelling-wise.
    - please don't keep asking in /g for someone to run you through WC or SM or other low level instances. I really feel this is something we can't expect from others. If someone does it out of sheer altruism or because you agreed to run his/her alt through the same place in exchange it's fine, but otherwise try to get a group!

    - to Hack: maybe we could make a new forum section called LFG or something like that? Because people maybe dont use the bugged GEM as much now.
    « Last Edit: February 26, 2007, 10:17:43 AM by Hruktar »